Sim 6 S&U (S22)
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G9.
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I honestly didn't watch enough of VC to know.
I'm going to say Paul Pierce last out of spite. Don't like the man, but also I think the other three are definitely ahead of him.
My list would be Ray, Melo, PP. Based on VC highlights I'm almost certain he is ahead of Ray, and definitely ahead of Melo.
VC's longevity speaks volume to his two way game too, I think. There's a reason Melo didn't last nearly as long as he did etc.
EDIT: i cant read. question is about peaks. in which case i'm going to go
VC, Melo, Ray, PP.
I'm going to say Paul Pierce last out of spite. Don't like the man, but also I think the other three are definitely ahead of him.
My list would be Ray, Melo, PP. Based on VC highlights I'm almost certain he is ahead of Ray, and definitely ahead of Melo.
VC's longevity speaks volume to his two way game too, I think. There's a reason Melo didn't last nearly as long as he did etc.
EDIT: i cant read. question is about peaks. in which case i'm going to go
VC, Melo, Ray, PP.
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Melo - Arguably the most unfairly treated player of all-time. Scoring title in 12-13, 10 time all-star, 6 time all nba, was a “certified bucket” from day one and one of the greatest pure scorers to ever grace the hardwood, won a natty at Syracuse and won a couple gold medals for the US national team. Never had the talent around him to really legitimately contend for a title. If Detroit has taken him #2 like they should have we’re talking about Carmelo in a completely different light. He should’ve left to sign with the Bulls instead of re-upping with the Knicks, he may have won a title there but he chose loyalty instead. A fantastic leader and teammate, never heard him place the blame on his coaches or his GM or teammates, listen to Iman Shumpert talk about how Melo would place all the blame on himself to the media in New York even when it was clearly not his fault. The Barkley of his generation imo.
Ray - One of the best shooters of all-time, analytics darling, supreme efficiency. Man shot 40% from 3 for his career and just under 90% from the line. Was effective for a long stretch of time. More of a side kick than a true #1 but he was part of 2 fantastic championship teams and he played his role well. 10 time all-star, hall of famer, 2 time all nba. Also proud owner of the horniest tweet of all-time.
Pierce - Overrated by own fan base but a legit 10 time all star and 4 time all NBA player. Won a title once Boston assembled they big 3, and he was a big part of it. Well rounded wing who chipped in everywhere. Kind of a hater, overly dramatic, but he was clutch and he didn’t back down.
Vince - Largely overrated, fan favorite and all-time dunker boost his legacy much higher than it realistically ever should have been though. Doesn’t have as many all-league teams as you’d think a guy of his caliber would. Never won anything. 8 time all star and 2 time all nba.
Ray - One of the best shooters of all-time, analytics darling, supreme efficiency. Man shot 40% from 3 for his career and just under 90% from the line. Was effective for a long stretch of time. More of a side kick than a true #1 but he was part of 2 fantastic championship teams and he played his role well. 10 time all-star, hall of famer, 2 time all nba. Also proud owner of the horniest tweet of all-time.
Pierce - Overrated by own fan base but a legit 10 time all star and 4 time all NBA player. Won a title once Boston assembled they big 3, and he was a big part of it. Well rounded wing who chipped in everywhere. Kind of a hater, overly dramatic, but he was clutch and he didn’t back down.
Vince - Largely overrated, fan favorite and all-time dunker boost his legacy much higher than it realistically ever should have been though. Doesn’t have as many all-league teams as you’d think a guy of his caliber would. Never won anything. 8 time all star and 2 time all nba.
FortsonBass
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VC
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Of the 4, VC took a pretty weak Raptors team within one game of the ECF in 01. Ironically, Allen’s Bucks lost to the 76ers in that ECF but if you replace Allen with VC on that Bucks squad I think they give the Lakers a pretty good run that year. I think the line between VC and Ray is pretty close but I give VC’s shot creating ability (even later in his career) as the edge. Ray may have hit the shot in the 2013 Finals but he was a large dud for the Heat in 2013, 14 playoffs. Where as VC was solid in his playoff stints with the Magic and Mavs later in his career. Likewise, you replace Allen with VC on the 08 Celtics and you’re probably looking at a 3-peat. There were moments where Rondo’s creativeness saved Allen, Pierce, and KG. VC would’ve been even better on those teams.
As a player, VC’s deep 3-point shoot ability today even would be better represented and of the 4 he’s the best fit.
You’re wondering why I didn’t address Melo or Pierce. It’s very simple. Melo never played defense, couldn’t play in any offense where he wasn’t the focal point, and forced his way to New York where he could’ve just waited to sign there. As for Pierce, great player before the stabbings and even after but nothing better than Bernard King level in the league. Put Melo on those Celtics’ teams and I’m not sure if they win but Melo is certainly a better player than Pierce.
Great question as VC is very close to Allen, and Melo is so close to Pierce.
Ray
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Of the 4, VC took a pretty weak Raptors team within one game of the ECF in 01. Ironically, Allen’s Bucks lost to the 76ers in that ECF but if you replace Allen with VC on that Bucks squad I think they give the Lakers a pretty good run that year. I think the line between VC and Ray is pretty close but I give VC’s shot creating ability (even later in his career) as the edge. Ray may have hit the shot in the 2013 Finals but he was a large dud for the Heat in 2013, 14 playoffs. Where as VC was solid in his playoff stints with the Magic and Mavs later in his career. Likewise, you replace Allen with VC on the 08 Celtics and you’re probably looking at a 3-peat. There were moments where Rondo’s creativeness saved Allen, Pierce, and KG. VC would’ve been even better on those teams.
As a player, VC’s deep 3-point shoot ability today even would be better represented and of the 4 he’s the best fit.
You’re wondering why I didn’t address Melo or Pierce. It’s very simple. Melo never played defense, couldn’t play in any offense where he wasn’t the focal point, and forced his way to New York where he could’ve just waited to sign there. As for Pierce, great player before the stabbings and even after but nothing better than Bernard King level in the league. Put Melo on those Celtics’ teams and I’m not sure if they win but Melo is certainly a better player than Pierce.
Great question as VC is very close to Allen, and Melo is so close to Pierce.
monta8curry
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Purely on talent and winning:
1. Melo -- "walking bucket" as the twitterers like to say...Denver Melo was a monster, inside, outside, 3pter, post-ups, had the entire offensive package. Sure maybe defensively he didn't try as hard as he should have but don't think he's as much of a liability as some people say he was. NYK Melo was good too but he literally had no help after Amare got hurt.
2. VC -- injuries slowed him down, but he adapted his game a lot especially after New Jersey, and to play as long as he did is incredble. Maybe he was overrated cus of his dunks, but the culture change he brought to Canada has to be of some value, no?
3. Ray -- Sniper, ran off curls and popped up for jumpers crazy quick. People forget he had some bunnies too. Wasn't a complete package two-way player though. Played Kobe tough in those finals vs. Boston, but was never kn own for defense and wasn't great at creating off the dribble
4. Pierce -- Pretty sure a lot of his peak got fucked up by having Antoine Walker as his sidekick but I digress. Great scorer and closer at the ends of games, but wasn't a great defender and a lot of his game wasn't flashy so maybe that's why he didn't stand out as much to me.
1. Melo -- "walking bucket" as the twitterers like to say...Denver Melo was a monster, inside, outside, 3pter, post-ups, had the entire offensive package. Sure maybe defensively he didn't try as hard as he should have but don't think he's as much of a liability as some people say he was. NYK Melo was good too but he literally had no help after Amare got hurt.
2. VC -- injuries slowed him down, but he adapted his game a lot especially after New Jersey, and to play as long as he did is incredble. Maybe he was overrated cus of his dunks, but the culture change he brought to Canada has to be of some value, no?
3. Ray -- Sniper, ran off curls and popped up for jumpers crazy quick. People forget he had some bunnies too. Wasn't a complete package two-way player though. Played Kobe tough in those finals vs. Boston, but was never kn own for defense and wasn't great at creating off the dribble
4. Pierce -- Pretty sure a lot of his peak got fucked up by having Antoine Walker as his sidekick but I digress. Great scorer and closer at the ends of games, but wasn't a great defender and a lot of his game wasn't flashy so maybe that's why he didn't stand out as much to me.
mngopher35
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VC
Ray
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Melo
I actually think that this is pretty close all the way around. I think Vince brings a little bit more at his peak with his athleticism but it is close. All of these guys were gifted scorers in their own way and I think Melo was the worst defensively. Ray and his shooting get the slight edge over Pierce. I think with any of them you still want a playmaker on the team beside them as well.
Ray
PP
Melo
I actually think that this is pretty close all the way around. I think Vince brings a little bit more at his peak with his athleticism but it is close. All of these guys were gifted scorers in their own way and I think Melo was the worst defensively. Ray and his shooting get the slight edge over Pierce. I think with any of them you still want a playmaker on the team beside them as well.
hokeyrules
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VC - An amazing athlete, who gave it all up until the last year in Toronto, and as injuries happened, he got smarter.
Ray - One of the best pure shooters all time
Paul Pierce - Maybe not the best talent and not necessarily better than Melo, but definitely brings more to the table. Won championships on teams and worked well with his core.
Carmelo - Honestly should have been the complete package, but his attitude got in the way.
Ray - One of the best pure shooters all time
Paul Pierce - Maybe not the best talent and not necessarily better than Melo, but definitely brings more to the table. Won championships on teams and worked well with his core.
Carmelo - Honestly should have been the complete package, but his attitude got in the way.
NCツ
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VC - vinsanity, constantly evolving your game to last in the league as long as he did is impressive as hell
Ray - like VC, Ray stuck around for a while. Hit the shot against the Spurs, his game evolved as well
Melo - Peak melo is probably better than peak VC/Ray, but lack of defense, not evolving his game, and never winning anything puts him at 3
PP - most overrated player imo, basically Boston's Derek Jeter. Will make HoF and loved by Boston, but not HoF worthy at all.
Ray - like VC, Ray stuck around for a while. Hit the shot against the Spurs, his game evolved as well
Melo - Peak melo is probably better than peak VC/Ray, but lack of defense, not evolving his game, and never winning anything puts him at 3
PP - most overrated player imo, basically Boston's Derek Jeter. Will make HoF and loved by Boston, but not HoF worthy at all.
You guys are talking about how much they won and the longevity of their careers, etc, but the question is at their absolute PEAK who was best. So i'm looking at each of these guy's best seasons to answer this question.
Melo - Easily the best scorer on this list. In his peak season (when he won the scoring title) he averaged almost 29ppg along with 7rpg and nice splits. Not the best defender, but in terms of his ability to get the ball in the hoop, he stands above the rest of these guys.
Ray - Insanely efficient and one of the greatest shooters of all time. At his peak he was doing around 25ppg with 4rpg and 4apg shooting around 40% from 3. He is so so deadly.
PP - I absolutely hated Pierce during those Lakers/Celtics finals series' because he's such a pest. But I can't deny what the man can do on the court. In his best season he was doing 27/7/5. Those are almost some MVP numbers there.
VC - He's last but it was tight. VC in his prime was an athletic monster and could score like crazy (27ppg in 05).
Melo - Easily the best scorer on this list. In his peak season (when he won the scoring title) he averaged almost 29ppg along with 7rpg and nice splits. Not the best defender, but in terms of his ability to get the ball in the hoop, he stands above the rest of these guys.
Ray - Insanely efficient and one of the greatest shooters of all time. At his peak he was doing around 25ppg with 4rpg and 4apg shooting around 40% from 3. He is so so deadly.
PP - I absolutely hated Pierce during those Lakers/Celtics finals series' because he's such a pest. But I can't deny what the man can do on the court. In his best season he was doing 27/7/5. Those are almost some MVP numbers there.
VC - He's last but it was tight. VC in his prime was an athletic monster and could score like crazy (27ppg in 05).
BradS4President
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Carmelo Anthony
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Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Vince Carter
Pierce - My rating is highly dependent on who I think is best equipped to be the main guy leading a team, and even though he's not as good of a scorer as Melo or shooter as Allen, I think Pierce had the most well rounded game on both ends of the floor as the #1 guy on the team and a leader.
Melo - You could make a case that he's a top 10 scorer of all time at the very least, but his lack of a defensive game and playoff success works against him. I agree that the Knicks did a terrible job surrounding him with the right pieces, but he has to take some of the blame as well.
Allen - Possibly the best shooter of all time (pre Curry/Thompson imo), but I think he's best as a 2nd or 3rd fiddle if you're trying to build a championship roster.
VC - Super athletic and electrifying to watch, but I don't think he's quite as talented or well rounded as the other guys on this list.
Pretty close 1 to 4 though
Melo - You could make a case that he's a top 10 scorer of all time at the very least, but his lack of a defensive game and playoff success works against him. I agree that the Knicks did a terrible job surrounding him with the right pieces, but he has to take some of the blame as well.
Allen - Possibly the best shooter of all time (pre Curry/Thompson imo), but I think he's best as a 2nd or 3rd fiddle if you're trying to build a championship roster.
VC - Super athletic and electrifying to watch, but I don't think he's quite as talented or well rounded as the other guys on this list.
Pretty close 1 to 4 though
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Vince Carter - At his peak he was unstoppable. The way he would light a team on fire after a big dunk was a joy to watch. Could score from anywhere on the court, rebound, and was an underrated defender. May not have had the best career on this list but prime VC was a nightmare.
Paul Pierce - Overall just a really solid and complete game. He was Bostons VC for a long time, leading a bad team to some degree of success. Proved later in his career he could win with decent pieces around him. I'd take him on my team any day.
Ray Allen - Best shooter of all time imo. Debatable but I think its Ray. Was a star everywhere he went except Miami where he was more of a role player. I think people forget how great his years in Seattle were.
Carmelo Anthony - Talent wise hed be my no. 2 on the list but he never really put it together anywhere after Denver. As a Nugget though I thought he was really good and that team was pretty damn good. Could easily go higher based on those Denver years, 4th is not a slight to Melo just a really good list of players.
Paul Pierce - Overall just a really solid and complete game. He was Bostons VC for a long time, leading a bad team to some degree of success. Proved later in his career he could win with decent pieces around him. I'd take him on my team any day.
Ray Allen - Best shooter of all time imo. Debatable but I think its Ray. Was a star everywhere he went except Miami where he was more of a role player. I think people forget how great his years in Seattle were.
Carmelo Anthony - Talent wise hed be my no. 2 on the list but he never really put it together anywhere after Denver. As a Nugget though I thought he was really good and that team was pretty damn good. Could easily go higher based on those Denver years, 4th is not a slight to Melo just a really good list of players.
1) Paul Pierce - Paul Pierce would be #1 for me because in his Celtics prime, he went toe to toe with the Lakers in the finals and played extremely well. He was a key reason they were able to win a championship over the Lakers. His numbers are superior (for the most part) in his prime to the rest of the guys on this list.
2) Carmelo Anthony - Was a premier scorer from the moment he hit the NBA hardwood. Was a key piece in playoff runs for the Nuggets very early in his career in a few playoff runs, if not for the Lakers he would likely have played in at least one finals before the age of 23. Unfortunately he ended up with a dysfunctional franchise who couldn't seem to build a team around him during his prime aged years.
3) Vince Carter - VC was as gifted of an athlete as the league may have ever seen. IMO his peak was when he played in New Jersey, I placed him 3rd because I believe he was good enough to carry a team but was unable to carry them into deep competitiveness. That isn't necessarily his fault, but its hard to place him above players that were able to.
4) Ray Allen - I debated this one. In his prime, Ray was awesome. He was on some very good teams, but reviewing his career he just wasn't really better than these guys. He was a solid 3rd role behind Pierce and KG in Boston. He was a solid role player for Miami for their titles. But IMO Ray was never a guy that could carry a team by himself.
2) Carmelo Anthony - Was a premier scorer from the moment he hit the NBA hardwood. Was a key piece in playoff runs for the Nuggets very early in his career in a few playoff runs, if not for the Lakers he would likely have played in at least one finals before the age of 23. Unfortunately he ended up with a dysfunctional franchise who couldn't seem to build a team around him during his prime aged years.
3) Vince Carter - VC was as gifted of an athlete as the league may have ever seen. IMO his peak was when he played in New Jersey, I placed him 3rd because I believe he was good enough to carry a team but was unable to carry them into deep competitiveness. That isn't necessarily his fault, but its hard to place him above players that were able to.
4) Ray Allen - I debated this one. In his prime, Ray was awesome. He was on some very good teams, but reviewing his career he just wasn't really better than these guys. He was a solid 3rd role behind Pierce and KG in Boston. He was a solid role player for Miami for their titles. But IMO Ray was never a guy that could carry a team by himself.
1) Carmelo Anthony - the best scorer in the league when he was in his prime. In my mind, if someone can be the best scorer in the league, that player is smart enough to play defense and play under any coach. I only wish he had a better team around him and he could have had another career trajectory than the one he is in now.
2) Paul Pierce - not only cuz he's one of my favorite Celtic, but he was able to hit clutch shots when it mattered. There's a reason he won MVP of the finals when there was a better player in Kevin Garnett on the team. The fact you have a reliable scorer when it's crunch time gives you so many options as PP can score or even open up for others as well. PP is known to be a skilled player, but in his prime he was also athletic.
3) Vince Carter - of note I've never seen Vince Carter play so it's hard for me to judge him as I know him more as an athletic freak who is the best dunker. Going off of his stats, his prime looks quite beastly and if he could score that efficiently, I may put him over PP but I don't know if VC hast he clutch factor that PP did which is why I put him behind PP.
4) Ray Allen - top 2 best shooter in NBA history. The most efficient scorer out of these 4 players. he will never be the name that stands out but I want to say prime Allen was as efficient a player can be. However, I can't see him being the alpha player leading a team to win it all
2) Paul Pierce - not only cuz he's one of my favorite Celtic, but he was able to hit clutch shots when it mattered. There's a reason he won MVP of the finals when there was a better player in Kevin Garnett on the team. The fact you have a reliable scorer when it's crunch time gives you so many options as PP can score or even open up for others as well. PP is known to be a skilled player, but in his prime he was also athletic.
3) Vince Carter - of note I've never seen Vince Carter play so it's hard for me to judge him as I know him more as an athletic freak who is the best dunker. Going off of his stats, his prime looks quite beastly and if he could score that efficiently, I may put him over PP but I don't know if VC hast he clutch factor that PP did which is why I put him behind PP.
4) Ray Allen - top 2 best shooter in NBA history. The most efficient scorer out of these 4 players. he will never be the name that stands out but I want to say prime Allen was as efficient a player can be. However, I can't see him being the alpha player leading a team to win it all
The Godfather
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VC
PP
Melo
Ray
VC one of the most dynamic players ever.. Put a crap Raptors team on his back and made them relevant all by himself
PP all around great.. If all these dudes were rookies I take PP to build a team around
Mali prolific scorer but ran hot and cold at times..when on nobody omnthis list is better
Ray Ray probably could go anywhere on this list tbh a matter of preference for me here.. But if I had certain pieces and needed a steady star quality gamer he would be my choice
Can't go wrong with any order really.. All brought something to the table depending on chemistry or team anybof the 4 could make sense in different dynamics
PP
Melo
Ray
VC one of the most dynamic players ever.. Put a crap Raptors team on his back and made them relevant all by himself
PP all around great.. If all these dudes were rookies I take PP to build a team around
Mali prolific scorer but ran hot and cold at times..when on nobody omnthis list is better
Ray Ray probably could go anywhere on this list tbh a matter of preference for me here.. But if I had certain pieces and needed a steady star quality gamer he would be my choice
Can't go wrong with any order really.. All brought something to the table depending on chemistry or team anybof the 4 could make sense in different dynamics
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VC - was constantly evolving his game and the longevity in it showed. Was an athletic monster but overall, could perform on all ends of the court.
melo - one of the best scorers of our generation. Defense was always severely lacking but you knew he was a walking bucket. Just never won..
pierce - proven winner on some dominant Celtics teams and had some monster years
Ray - a fucking amazing shooter but when he was winning he was the third best guy on his team. That doesn’t do it for me.
melo - one of the best scorers of our generation. Defense was always severely lacking but you knew he was a walking bucket. Just never won..
pierce - proven winner on some dominant Celtics teams and had some monster years
Ray - a fucking amazing shooter but when he was winning he was the third best guy on his team. That doesn’t do it for me.
Eberlicious
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Melo - One of the best scorers in the league at his peak
Vince - Crazy athlete could do a bit of everything, probably an underrated shooter too
Ray - top 3 shooter all time
PP - Lol
Vince - Crazy athlete could do a bit of everything, probably an underrated shooter too
Ray - top 3 shooter all time
PP - Lol
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1. Carmelo Anthony — Best pure talent of this grouping. He gets a really bad rap because he was money driven, but he was truly elite during his prime. We also saw what he was able to do when surrounded by other elite talent when he gave us the famed “Olympic Melo” era. I really think if he would’ve gone to a better situation off the bat (drafted 2nd overall to Detroit during their run, for example) or had some different breaks with the Nuggets (who almost broke through in their own right) we would talk about him differently today.
2. Ray Allen — Third best shooter of all time. And people really do forget how athletic he was in his younger years. It would be amazing to see Ray in today’s game where dudes have more of a license to straight up bomb. Very underrated defender as well, he could get it done on both ends of the floor at an extremely high level. I don’t think his peak is as good as Melo’s.
3. Vince Carter — VC is one of my favorite players ever. He has had an excellent career, just never reached that next level that I ever thought he would hit. He was able to refine his game to transition from just being uber athletic to being a good shooter (not to mention a good defender when he was younger). I would take him as a primary option over Pierce and frankly I think he was the better overall player
4. Paul Pierce — Extremely overrated. Never finished higher than 8th in MVP voting and was a pretty big stat compiler until Ray and KG saved his ass and his legacy. He was also the third banana (at least of importance) in that big three.
2. Ray Allen — Third best shooter of all time. And people really do forget how athletic he was in his younger years. It would be amazing to see Ray in today’s game where dudes have more of a license to straight up bomb. Very underrated defender as well, he could get it done on both ends of the floor at an extremely high level. I don’t think his peak is as good as Melo’s.
3. Vince Carter — VC is one of my favorite players ever. He has had an excellent career, just never reached that next level that I ever thought he would hit. He was able to refine his game to transition from just being uber athletic to being a good shooter (not to mention a good defender when he was younger). I would take him as a primary option over Pierce and frankly I think he was the better overall player
4. Paul Pierce — Extremely overrated. Never finished higher than 8th in MVP voting and was a pretty big stat compiler until Ray and KG saved his ass and his legacy. He was also the third banana (at least of importance) in that big three.